Curse

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

So you and your team have never had any DP before in PvE? Really, how is this going to support your claim that +health bonus is an obviously better choice than +armor in all PvE situations? Besides an empty brag of your personal skills.

I said SERIOUS DP.
And +Health is always better because it's not situational, and it defends against anything.
It doesn't depend on your bar, or the type of damage it's defending against.

DarkSpirit · Apr 19, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I said SERIOUS DP.
And +Health is always better because it's not situational, and it defends against anything.
It doesn't depend on your bar, or the type of damage it's defending against.

As long as you have 15%DP, your +health bonus is already impacted while +armor stays the same.

And armor ignoring damage from monsters are not a big deal. You dont get synchronized blood spikes on the same level as in PvP. Any degen hexes can also be healed through or hex removed.

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

15% DP is nothing.
And read my post again.

Quote:

And +Health is always better because it's not situational, and it defends against anything.
It doesn't depend on your bar, or the type of damage it's defending against.

It's not ONLY armour-ignoring damage or degen.
It defends against anything and isn't situational.

DarkSpirit · Apr 19, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

15% DP is nothing.

It's not ONLY armour-ignoring damage or degen.
It defends against anything and isn't situational.

You are just going round in circles and you are not addressing anything besides self bragging to boost up your ego at this point.

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

PvE boosting someone's ego is baed.
Anything in PvE isn't an achievement.

And how is explaining why Survivor > Armour on insignias bragging?

healmaster · Apr 19, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Thanks for stating the obvious. +Armor saves the SAME amount of damage each time, and is not effected by DP.

Your statement is plain wrong, and i'll explain why:

DP only affects your base health and energy. It does not affect health bonuses (or energy) from runes, insignias, weapon upgrades etc. 15% DP always results in having 15% of 480 = 72 hp less.

Therefore, survivor insignias basically allow you to take 40 more damage before you die, DP does not matter here.

Armor bonuses, on the other hand, reduce incoming damage by a certain percentage. Having +10 armor, for example, reduces damage by 15.9%. Of course, it doesn't help when facing armor ignoring damage/degen. Let's be optimistic and say that in general, it reduces the damage you take by 10%. When you have for example 500hp without DP, you can effectively take 550 damage (500 + 10% of 500) before dying. This means the armor bonus provides an effective health bonus of 50 health.

However, when you aquire DP this changes. When your maximum health drops to, say, 300hp, the 10% reduction suddenly becomes less useful. You can still take 10% more damage, but 10% of 300 is a lot less than 10% of 500. Your effective health is now only 330 hp, a bonus of 30.

So, unlike what was said in previous statements, survirors remain effective with DP, while +armor is reduced in its effectiveness.

DarkSpirit · Apr 19, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by healmaster

...snip...

I still dont see how that matters in PvE. If you really need health because you have died with 3 superior runes and 60DP, then just switch armor, otherwise +armor is still superior.

Assume difference of 10 armor gives a difference of 0.16 to the damage multiplier. The best result from Survivor insignia gives +15hp on the chest.

So to make the +10 armor worthwhile, throughout a battle, takes a total of 15/0.16 about 94 base damage. Accumulating a total of more than 94 base damage throughout a PvE battle, is not uncommon in HM. This makes the +10 armor more worth while. I simplified the calculations greatly but you get the point.

Agree that it doesn't stop armor ignoring damage but these can generally be healed through in PvE or if they are hexes or conditions, removed. Unless you are fighting a synchronized blood spike team in most areas within PvE, +armor is more useful with healing and in a prolonged battle where the effectiveness of that small amount of hp is limited while +armor continues to grant the same bonus with each hit so cummulatively it saves you more hp.

+15 health is visually more appealing than +10 armor, but that doesn't mean it is always more effective in PvE. Want another source? Take a look at the Bow FAQ for Rangers when comparing the Bow grip of Defense(+5 armor) vs Bow grip of Fortitude(+30hp):

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/showthread.php?t=358528

Quote:

The bowgrip of popular choice seems to be a Bowgrip of Fortitude, as seen by the enormously inflated prices for a perfect Health +30 version. However, if you look at the numbers, Bowgrip of Defense with an Armor +5 reduces incoming damage to 91.7% of normal, which means about a 9% benefit. Even if the Fortitude grip is perfect at +30 HP, the benefit from the Fortitude grip amounts to about 5% to 7%, meaning that based on Armor Level alone, the Bowgrip of Defense looks like a better choice.

healmaster · Apr 20, 2008, 10:09 AM // 10:09

You shouldn't compare a full set of +armor with only the chest piece of +health. A chest piece with +armor only provides a 37.5% chance to reduce damage.
Also keep in mind that +armor bonuses are generally conditional, although some conditions can be met pretty reliably.

From the same bow rangers guide:

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Mostly, it boils down to personal preference.

QFT, /endofftopic

/ontopic
If you really need every interrupt you can get, I'd say a mesmer is better. For general PvE/HM however, I prefer a ranger since it deals some damage as well and has more use when the interrupts are not needed.

DarkSpirit · Apr 20, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by healmaster

You shouldn't compare a full set of +armor with only the chest piece of +health. A chest piece with +armor only provides a 37.5% chance to reduce damage.

Comparing +10 armor insignia to a +15hp survivor insignia (which is already the max on the chest) IS comparing 1 insignia vs 1 insignia, so I dont know what you are talking about. And of course it all boils down to personal preference but +hp is so much more overrated and expensive than +armor, most people just assume +hp is always better than +armor.

Quote:

For general PvE/HM however, I prefer a ranger since it deals some damage as well and has more use when the interrupts are not needed.

Ranger can interrupt better in PvE because of dazed, but mesmers can deal more damage in PvE because of [cry of pain] even when carrying some interrupts skills.

Jam Jar · Apr 20, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Just make a Me/R and wield a bow for distracting shot. Done.